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tv   Arctic National Wildlife Refuge Hearing - Part 2  CSPAN  November 10, 2017 6:28pm-8:01pm EST

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. >> one of the themes of my book of the legal profession but to be notoriously anti-semitic but from his vantage point and wed dominate to say how dare you reflect [inaudible conversations]
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of. >> welcome back sorry for the extra read ted minute delay but we were voting and hopefully we have an opportunity to get through the last panel with the opportunity to conclude the hearing before we have another round of votes. this second panel is more technical with several witnesses present about modern development on the north slope and joining us today we have the president and ceo komen thanks for being here you also brought your seven with zero - -
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your son with you. and also bought the ring back the arctic program director from the wilderness society and then also a frequent flier to the committee the executive vice president for land and natural resources from their regional cooperation is good to have you back richard perle and then known to many alaskans here in washington d.c. the former assistant to alaska n. affairs during the previous administration. welcome back and blast is the biologist and former research professor at university of alaska some of us know him as the kerry blue man but he is well
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versed in the biology of many of these issues we have been discussing for girl banks were traveling the distance today not only for your contribution before the hearing also the good working in your respective areas. please leave the panel with your comments and stick to five minutes your comments are appropriated to the record. >> madam chair and members of the committee it is an opportunity to be here tear testify today i am the president chief executive officer and a trite -- tribal member and a shareholder of the 13 native regional corporations established by congress under the settlement act than spending a good portion of the of anwr lies within
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our region. so with coastal and gas development if it can be shown to be consistent with the protection of the caribou herd many people are shareholders and are here today rely on the subsistence and cultural survival we encourage the images states government of. management whether or not it opens to gas and oil development. i will focus my testimony on our subsidiary that we operate on the north slope with some of the most indians rigs in the industry designed specifically for the arctic. and over our 40 years of existence we're proud of that leadership role with employee safety in sound environmental practices when
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opened to oil and gas development supporters made arguments of the use of new technology to minimize the impact on anwr and these claims have borne out in industry we will share some of those today. a couple were directional multilateralism drilling techniques that have been developed and perfected in that timeframe that allows to be drilled in all directions like the spokes of a bicycle wheel. directional drilling was in the '70s but at that time did not allow the reach that we can announce you can now draw a couple square-mile and this is the figure shown before a couple square 3 miles using technology from the '70s now fast forward on the far right to
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a drill rig could cover 125 square miles. see you could space modern development 10 miles apart with no surface impact so that is a dramatic shift in technology during that time period so the impact to those technological changes are not theoretical we have another graphic that recently completed on the north slope that five production wells each is now producing reservoir sand through three different fault lots and that total drilled over 39,000 feet 28,000 is in the production zone. so to develop the same resources 20 years ago like they would have recorded - - required to drill pads
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with multiple wells to access the same resources that we can access from a single surface location. currently building the extended rick -- rigged that could reach out even further 35,000 horizontal feet and that is the capability that allows it to reach out from the single surface will pad now we can drill from here to capitol hill hitting the target as size of this room certainly at the convention center on the potomac river six and a half miles away. it is developed to allow our clients to develop that untapped resources from the
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infrastructure so the client will not have to build new pads or pipelines to produce known oil reserves. with the change of technology allows more on the slope and with 70 percent smaller and 80 percent fewer pads from the '70s. so that is 19,000 acres is down to just a few hundred acres to develop that alpine field on the western side. finally the impact of exploration on the environment is minimal the difference between exploration and production production, you can save the of location than the summer
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version of the same location where there's almost no lasting service impact. -- surface impact. i want to close my testimony to say that we obviously have a large presence in that economy developed because it was the available economy to us in the '70s and we are very proud with our shareholders in the environmentally safe protection of employees is paramount. but to provide income as the single drolled rig to have an impact of $4 million on
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the rig probe that is the reality we have had for many years. so we're proud to be here today and supportive of anwr but only if we can assure ourselves of the protection of the caribou herd that i mentioned earlier. >> we appreciate the visuals as well. next to ms. epstein. >> they give chairman and also we are here to do senator cantwell and other members for inviting me to testify to this important hearing on a critical national publicly and issue. and the arctic program director for the wilderness society my home is an anchorage. we began working in this region in the '30's and has
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a license in should there i am proud to be part of the of legacy. anbar is a vast landscape of dramatic mountain peaks and coastal lagoons along the northern edge with the weather place like in america. for thousands of years it has spent home to communities and has sustained them to provide vital habitats to live 45 species of mammals including the largest caribou herd will this and sheep and 150 species of birds to migrate from the refuge to breed there from all 50 states it is the crown jewel of the national refuge system so that coastal plain is widely recognized of the heart of the refuge is as important
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to the national heritage of yellowstone in the grand canyon where we choose not to drill. contrast this pristine place with zero oil and gas exploration which is complicated and a lot has not changed over the years to make it less so. even the most well-financed operatives this year bt -- bp had a blowout due to falling permafrost and a specialist had to fly in to take care of the disaster. this week the state looks at all those of similar design because they are concerned for the potential for additional blowouts. and 2012 there was the exploratory well blowout on the north slope that was 42,000 gallons in adjustments to plug that because of rigid temperatures prevented worked so according to this bill database this week there has been 121 crude oil
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spills during the past five years with approximately two per month. study showed almost spills each year over 1,000 gallons it is important to recognize they're not all small spills. wailes development infrastructure is not confined at 2,000 acres and have some have said. that calculation does not include roads were the five lines except though limited places there is a support post for also year-round air pollution and new ways from aircraft and processinprocessin g facilities with the gravel roads to deters some care before crossing and waste from drilling operations requiring dispose of. directional drilling is not a new technology has the same impact there reduces
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only one concern of the size. pipelines are still required and pollution and industrial blaze is still inevitable. because of higher cost directional drilling may or may not be used for exploratory drilling and as discussed in 2011 hearing in this committee will companies prefer not to use directional drilling four exploratory because that is less reliable information. so in some respects it is a trojan horse to the entire oil production. neither the provision or directional drilling would prevent the entire coastal plain from becoming industrialized the arctic refuge drilling is not needed the trans alaska slowed 6% over the past three years and the alaska eddied are expects the
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pipeline to increase through the late 2020 is in the figure shows that. significant new discoveries including the national petroleum reserve will increase production and this technology we have heard about is very useful with existing oilfields to increase production. notably drilling in the arctic refuge is not necessary to insure the trans alaska in pipeline remains viable altered for decades. the cbo said limited documentation that the report estimates 5 billion for the coastal plains between the state and federal government and crude oil prices were twice as high in 2012 as now making arctic refuge drilling more difficult today. it is highly unlikely these
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leases will come any closer to estimates for growth since 2000 the average north slope big has been before dollars an acre. this is less about meeting revenue targets and approving a controversial measure to open the anwr coastal plain to oil development without the possibility of day filibuster so for them to destroy and industrialize a unique place thanks for the opportunity to discuss this region him happy to answer your questions. >> think you madam chairman in committee members to see a the coalition to be here thanks for staying. i and the vice president of
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plans for the regional corporation created by congress 1971 headquartered on the north slope including go west through the eastern the arctic region. the residents have always developed on subsistence resources as a tribal member , and he and bruce spoke before me and our other than the governor is a tribal member and those comments that said she did not see tribal members. maybe she just didn't find enough to agree with her position that the majority
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of support are supportive of responsible development in anwr i am not here to debate the sacred land on either side of the north or the south. for all land is sacred it contains the bones of our ancestors and i don't mean ancient people but in living memory. we did not start to bury our dead until the 1820 cell by great grandparents were the first generation that were buried after the flu epidemic swept through the region the tradition was to leave the residence hall temporary when the person died. so them they carried the bones of our people and some of my ancestors bones are in the day.
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others are scattered along the coastal plains of the canadian border are people other named after places and places are named after the people some est. landor federal land but it is all equally sacred. yet we depend on the land for development, food and i wish to do trivialize anyone's resources but as a corporation 92,000 acres of land they hold resource potential for oil and gas development of a geologist by training tutorial and develop natural resources on the north slope.
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i know of these practices and i have seen the evolution from my own professional life from very simple drilling production to the ornate and deficient diagrams you have seen presented so effectively. the reduced footprint is real and hundreds of square miles senator king asked how many wells are rich talking about? we have real world answers to those questions they are here in the audience. at the west end of the explanation with the delta in trends to the west those that have resource potential 500 wells have been drilled that is 89,000 feet
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radiating outward as far as 6 miles. with these production wells for basic central facilities covering maybe 300 acres of land so those are real world examples for at its peak hundreds of thousands per day so that is the development we envision moving into the coastal plain of in war. -- anbar so the show's dramatic exaggerations if you follow the scale is 2 miles across each and r3 miles i the pipeline is shown on the map it would be one-quarter mile wide. that is not realistic if you want to see realistic
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development go to the areas of modern exploration and development one thing we learned in production is that production declines. so the line in the room with a glass cut production the eight oilfields were supergiant oilfields and on the shoulders of their decline with those new discoveries as simple as i am they cannot match that scope of the decline they can only change the scope -- the slope. meanwhile 92,000 acres of the coastal plains of the anbar area have been set aside for the energy potential lies fallow and we cannot even test the potential unless congress asked -- tax the landowners
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from the region cannot realize their right to economic self-determination if congress fails to lift the prohibition of the coastal plains so congress needs to act. my organization was an agreement made between congress and the tribes of alaska. we did not ask for and fought against it but living with the results so in our region we have a relationship of the municipalities better oral will did together like a rope so you cannot separate tribes and corporations or the mother's language of discourse from today i can speak a language of another which is gibberish to you and disrespectful to
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everybody. the only indigenous people should be listened to the loudest but today's hearing shows there is a lack of attention paid to them. listen to what they are saying. they need the economy and development in their area they want the freedom to do what the rest of the country takes for granted with reliable power and water and schools in the ability to use sanitation to keep their kids healthy. i strongly recommend the committee look at the testimony of those from the village and the tribal faults throughout alaska. we do not agree 100 percent but the majority do. we believe wildlife and involvement can and coexist
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already day already do along the bay to this central heard alaska bnl n and fish and wild game they're calling the caribou calving in the area of infrastructure and migrating south to the arctic village to be haunted by the neighbors to the south. we're already hunting caribou calving in the areas of development. i of one and two words of the north slope development we see them there under the pipelines sometimes under the facilities like hotels when they try to get away from the mosquitos table go anywhere. they lay down on the tundra next to the buses the caribou are not afraid. >> we need you to wrap up.
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>> bernardino hunted -- they are not hunted there. we look for a safe and expeditious opening for our state and country. thank you. >> of the week we will have an opportunity to ask questions. >> chairman and members of the committee thank you for the privilege to testify today on rig i'm testifying is a retired public servant and citizen the last 45 years in alaska us including serving in the legislature as commissioner of the cnr and the alaskan federation and most recently a specialist to the secretary of interior i would confess from the onset i have worked
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for politicians favoring drilling in those that have opposed exploration and development since my participation as a congressional staffer 40 years ago i have witnessed decades of debate on the issue permitting oil and gas in the development of the refuge per class and alaskan i appreciate the economic benefit the in negative benefits by have come to the conclusion this last piece is more appropriately left as wilderness to be far more valuable for future generations. i have the opportunity to haikou's known as and observe the caribou on the plains looking at the polar bear and look at the snow geese no denying it is one of the most special and
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spectacular places on the planet as it stretches over 600 miles from the canadian border most of the area is available for oil and gas development. those were over 100 miles over the seacoast those are proceeding in those 23 million acres and now it is proposed as our national heritage. the 1.5 million acres proposed for development in the refuge represents only a small fraction and it would not significantly impact the refuge but the coastal plain and the intergrowth component in with the care of rupert girl and then
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issued a 1987 the was the most biologically productive part of the you refuge and so are we al gore for the nation's security? three run and how of gasoline? that leasing revenues will help the state? it is clearly no to all of these and the answer should be a note to allow oil and gas development in the refuge for cry was moved by the documentary the national parks, in the late '50s a dedicated group affair back to -- fairbanks residents had the idea to protect wild
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public lands with the of landover secretary of interior and with that recreational data use. and then to be renewed and which the range was expanded the purpose was laid out to conserve fish and wildlife populations and habitats with the natural diversity. ken burns documentary vividly demonstrates how the heroes of the nation's history were those with the foresight to protect and defend the national treasures and those to protect something so
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conversely there will no honor those and then that should be the very last place we should allow oil development in the refuge. thank you. >> so to speak about caribou and oilfields but the of literature is very large and i will provide every summary or early. so at the symposium i watch that in line at the
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symposium is to say something very insightful we cannot make good policy without a good data then he said give us a science in the way we can understand and that nothing can be more important. . . . . >> all of congress and all of the american people of the science. policy will come of that. this was a major point of senator kings, of that symposium that i appreciated.
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with regard to the oil fields, has many references in my written testimony. all hit on a few key points. first, there are impacts to individuals and then there's impacts to populations. an important concept is the caribou herds, hurts are not the same as population. they are defined by calving areas. the population, all four north slope is the same. there is overlap on winter ranges. the census is good in terms of quantifying the number of animals calving but the population is affected by many factors.
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studies have shown some level of displacement of calving cows but it's not unequivocal. in that case 44% of the caps observed were within the first h is the area claimed to be displaced. a study showed a higher density was within the first kilometer. literature is not clear-cut. capstone always avoid oil infrastructure. in the summer they use oilfields extensively. they go up under pipelines. if you look at the charts in my written testimony which are the graphs of the populations, you'll see dramatic variation over time. natural populations in general and caribou in particular have
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very large population fluctuations naturally. that's due to winter conditions, predators, immigration and emigration. the biologist complex in the literature is large. the alaska department of fish and game stated lester the impact of oil infrastructure on the heard has been considered in the recent decline but is not thought to be contributing to it because it grew substantially during peak oil development. several papers i co-author adjust this point through the early 2000's. it's important to look at the original literature in the references.
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i believe the status of the caribou on the field has been good. they continue to use the areas habitat. it's grown since the oilfields were developed. new technologies and insights resulted in a small area of development and mitigation measures such as elevating and separating pipelines from roads have been implemented that it helped with passage through the oilfields. i think it they can have proven mitigation measures. i believe it can be done with minimum impacts to caribou as long as mitigation efforts are there. calving is a may concern. you limit activities during the calving time. you limit traffic, aircraft, noise get local knowledge to help you manage in the local
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area. i've done research on polar bears and other arctic animals that i be happy to provide information if you are interested. every test questions. thank you. >> think a dr.. thank you teacher for your testimony this afternoon. we'll have an opportunity for questions. no stated during the ranking member that in her view things haven't changed much. some of the arguments against it are true. the arguments are still the same. whatever today is a recognition that we have seen change in the seven years since this committee has less considered the prospects of the ten oh two area
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it has changed considerably. the data, the science and research collected over the 40 years we have been operating can better inform us. you mentioned mitigation and technology. mr. glenn, you speak of the caribou and the fact that the caribou are around the camps. there on the roads. they are not deterred by man-made activities. we recognize that while they are calving it's more sensitive time. i would like more discussion in
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terms of how we are utilizing the signs we've collected to be better stewards of the wildlife, the caribbean used to detect polar bears in a den, and how we are voiding contactor disturbance. seand some of the other mitigatn measures. the proposal was made that perhaps there might be a form of comanagement of caribou if we are to move forward. i like to open up that discussion. let's start off with you, richard. >> thank you for the question. the issue of timing comes out strongest. and what would happen in the winter which is not a calving
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season. >> before you move on, it's important for calyx understand what talk about exploration and alaska in the winter, so because we like to be out in the cold and the dark. it is because were required to do that. >> the navy began exploring for oil and gas in the 40s and they discovered quickly that summertime when expiration happens in warmer climates is not the time to move about on the tundra. everything that needs heavy equipment gouges itself into the thought out surface. over years of learning the hard way we tailor the practices to operate in the winter when the ground is frozen. even if there is no snow or ice road, the tundra protects itself
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by being a frozen state. that is the general paradigm as it exists today. fast forward to the hard lessons learned, they developed ways to explore with seismic angelina nice roads nice paths that insulate the service from harmful effects of summertime disturbance of the tundra. the calendar already dictates the machinery will be around when the animals are less likely to be there. sometimes caribou around year-round. those of us who live fairbanks
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and northward were caribou connoisseurs. we can tell the difference between pregnant nonpregnant cows for example, or when the marrow changes flavor. calving is a special time. if you are caribou hunter, mother caribou whose curing the calf, she wants to lay down. she will lay down anywhere is/is not being threatened. it is the pregnant caribou that showed the least -- of hunted a lot of caribou, when they run away the pregnant cast a lane on the ground. they went away and come back. the nature of a caribou carrying the calf is different than regular caribou behavior. once development happens, if development happens, the facilities and pipelines are constructed to minimize the effects.
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they're elevated so that caribou can walk unimpeded underneath. there's a lot of stuff happening on one piece of gravel. the caribou are free to do whatever they need to do on the undisturbed tundra. >> thank you. i'm over my time. >> thank you. it's intimidating they sent my words, literally scores of people wash that presentation. i may go back to the questions i asked before. maybe you can answer this. i think have discerned the answer. it is not 2000 contiguous acres, it's 2000 acres made up of lots of little pieces. >> it was selling up a 2000
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contiguous acres. >> so is not limited 20000-acre square. >> i've never seen the geology. it is not publicly available to people like me. the size oilfields are many thousands of acres. to recover that there be many small pads. were talking 10-acre 12-acre drill sites and maybe a few central job pads. >> i presume to get the oil out there'd have to be pipelines, from each pattern drill site. >> way to transport. >> and the way to do that is the pipeline. >> yes, sir. >> were tight meta- pipeline. in terms of 2000 actor' acres were talking about the feet of the pipeline. >> i don't know that part. i heard that for the first time today.
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>> and how many wells would you be talking about. somebody mentioned 500. mike alkylation was a couple of thousand. >> i'm not the right person to answer that. >> teen at the production of your well is? >> that what was finished in the last month. it's a client's will that we journaled. >> you may production for typical well you have in-service. >> there is a huge range. some are not production wells, they are injectors or other types of wells. >> i'm trying to get at how many wells were talking about. >> be hundreds if you're trying to build a billion-dollar field.
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>> you characterize this as a cartoon. this shows 50 wells. were talking about 100 or 500 you're talking about many more dots on this map. >> we can drill 50 wells from a 10-acre drill pad. >> you are considering a multiple, you're calling those separate wells. using each line is a separate well. just trying to understand this. you said you could do ten lateral. >> it's my production well doors off of one single surface location. >> so each one of those who call a well even though there's only one surface. >> that's correct.
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>> is important to understand if were talking about 10 billion to barrels, what is that time in terms of the number of wells and how many laterals are there? trying to determine what were really talking about. it's one searching for. the calving time is in the spring and summer? >> yes, the in demand first week of june. >> is there anything special about this area in terms of oil and gas? i've looked on the map and there is a huge area set aside for oil and gas drilling. much larger than this area. we have indications this is rich
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area that were talking about? >> i am probably not the expert you need on that question. certainly the outcrops of the sandstorm reservoirs that are producing are similar the same. >> were talking about a special area that has been set aside for a long time. resend we need to drill here. is this area particularly productive or could we not trail in some of the other areas that are literally the oil and gas truly area. >> i've heard people refer to a special area which i do not want to minimize. but many areas of alaska are special. those who grew up in alaska :
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section god's country. >> my town in maine is truly god's country. i take your point. thank you. >> there is a difference between what the u.s. says about the impurity the likely fields you might find their through exploration and the scale of what might be available. >> i think usgs would be a good source for specific information on the resources they predict. >> thank you now return to senator cortes. >> thank you. want to follow up on the line of questions. i'm getting computers.
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if i understand correctly this section is opening up the coastal plain for drilling. is that true? that's your understanding? i'm confused as to this with the 2000-acre limitation comes from. i think it's referring to the house energy bill that i'm not sure what that all means. were talking about drilling 1.57 million acres on a better understanding of how many pads were talking about. you have to have a better understanding of the mpr a. how much larger lincoln occur there and wasn't that occurring instead of opening up the
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coastal plain. >> thank you for the question. i were both on the mpr a of the arctic refuge. in the mpr a, historically there has been high numbers than others a reassessment going on there's been discoveries. the slope of the world going through the pipeline is going up. there's new discoveries and new ways of getting into existing reserves which is good. joe and less sensitive areas as you are referring to. usgs is looking at the impurity now in this activity on that
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coming up with a new estimate. there's not much data right now. >> waiting for the data to make that determination. how major pads are there now. >> the cd5. >> could be quite large. they're trying to delineate that. i had a lot of discussion about balance the last panel. the north slope is a large landscape of the plants you're making, we think that does represent balance. some are open for development, some are non- because they are sensitive. there's a lot going on in the state lands and that's also
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considered less sensitive. >> thank you for the graph, that helps you perspective what were talking about. each pad has the potential of having more than one trial hole and from that comes the various wells. there could be six wells from one whole. >> you're asking technical questions. >> i'm just going off the graph. >> each drill pad you talk about the size of the drill pattern with new technology they decrease in the footprint. looks like a potential 12 acres. how many of those could come
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from a 12-acre pad? i'll figure out another way to get that answer. >> it depends. you can assume from a 12-acre path that dozens of boreholes can be drill. and then appropriate multilateral's will account for additional wells. somewhere between ten and 100. >> okay. you give have the answers going to get. it helps to put in perspective the order of events. if the coastal plain is open for exploration, seismic exploration starts. then exploration drilling's occurs. the rules are to plug and abandon it when you're done so it disappears when you're done with exploration.
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discovery you move until you're talking about pads on the ground and radiating outward. there's things that have to happen. exploration should occur everywhere there's two different aspects to drilling. >> my time is up. a patient that. >> liquor back to the chart. while it may just be an illustration, having experience with development in the san juan basin and seeing the developme development, enough of my colleagues at least a during antelope it's not the paths that are substantial part of the
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disturbance and which can impede the movement of wildlife. it's everything that comes with that. the roads, the gravel mines, the pipelines. the more linear barriers you put the less likely that migration is to occur. i would suggest maybe all of us are the staff can do a little google earth a look at what this looks like. it is not the telepathic outliers tortured. have a question, one of my frustrations with this process is are doing it through budget reconciliation. in the context of that rather than regular legislative process. they said we do that because it's difficult if not impossible
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to pass this stand-alone legislation. one requirement is that we produce a billion dollars in new revenue. a new report out casts serious doubt if that's realistic. what would be necessary to particular terms a reasonable bonus because of the most likely income in the first ten years or whether or not we could hit that target or what a realistic estimate might be. >> i share your frustration about the speed of this process and the inability to get the information that everyone needs to make responsible decision. as an example, i have a
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colleague with a number of responses to the testimony that would be beneficial i will submit that the committee. it's important see you have a full picture of the nature of the cariboo development in terms of directly answering your question, i can partly answer. with the price of oil being what it is now the 50-dollar per barrel range, alaska's that attractive in new areas to oil companies. we also have lots of shell oil development in the lower 40 less expensive. the idea that they would pay
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extra so that they would have a piece of this controversial area is unlikely. i participated on an oil related committee and i talked to some industry colleagues about the arctic refuge. one comment i heard is if there is likely to be as productive there would have been more activity and more wells. >> it would have to be over $1300 and acres. i don't have a ton of time left. we need to come up with a billion dollars. we produce a lot of oil and gas in new mexico. there's some places we will never drill. we need to be careful about what
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doors were opening because we won't be able to undo it. to find that i would never advocate mining in the grand canyon are doing geo thermal resources in yellowstone. it's a wildlife refuge. that's why it's called the arctic national wildlife refuge. it's not a petroleum reserve and we should remember that. >> thank you for convening this important conversation. i think our witnesses who travel to join us today. one of my priorities to expand economic opportunities. i know every state faces challenges when it comes to creating new jobs. i recognize how important the
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oil industry has been. when it comes to dramatically expanding the same serious questions regarding the potential for catastrophic incidents. if this should teach us anything it's that difficult and tough questions must be a trust before proving massive expansion. we were discussing though oil like this it's not a matter of if this bill will occur but when and how bad will it be. we've heard about advances in setting aside the engineering jargon, can you explain if it's more dangerous to drill in the arctic, and why? >> the arctic is remote. there are not a lot of additional resources of their
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problems. they have to be brought in are flowing in. on bp, well resourced company has something in the unexpected happened. the permafrost or route along an old well. that resulted in quite a serious safety situation which is a concern top writers in their place. we've had situations where it's frigid and cold and he can't work. in a very specific arctic expertise. you need to know what you're doing. >> i understand they completed a report which reviewed over 6000 -- from 2009.
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they indicate there is an oil spill of a thousand gallons or more nearly every two months from 1995 till 2009. when oil spills and we have to clean it up as a more challenging in the arctic compared with elsewhere. what would the effects of that spill be? >> it would depend a bit on the time of year. if you had an oil spill in winter and it landed a frozen tundra you might be able clean it up quickly. if you have a spill on the waterway uploaded to a river and then into the sea, that would have tremendous impacts into the ecosystem.
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the waters only flowing part of the year. that's in all the activity take place. it would be quite damaging. >> the legislation we should be considering to make it safer? >> work, have spills. it's a complicated industry, hard to be on top of everything all the time. companies are trying to minimize costs. we can't prevent spills. >> thank you. mr. alexander, the alaskan first peoples have sued the united states military libraries per capita are greater than other areas of our population. going to think the representatives of the first people here today for that. was community alone in its concerns or is it shared with other tribes.
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what are the stakes if you people can no longer. >> mr. alexander was part of the first panel. >> no worries. thank you i'll you back. >> thank you. doctor cronin, in your research, the connectable populations, you found they are not significantly impacted by the presence of an oil field road, is that correct? >> yes. >> thank you. for this research did you receive funding from oil companies?
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>> yes. >> do you think receiving funding from oil companies could bias the outcomes of your research? >> no, sir. >> did you ever consider the same oil companies have funded your research which you use your work for justification of drilling and that may have been a motivation of theirs? >> first of all, the data we used talking about is the 2004 paper. we use the alaska state department of she gave data to the data collected by our group. the oil industry funded studies sometimes is a requirement for
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permits or stipulations for operating after permits were granted. they weather proposed development data or just posted element to look at the distribution of caribou. whether it was used to justify future drilling it was done and all the references i give them my written testimony or such. >> the manuscript says it was developed with support from exxon mobil and bp. exploration, set right? >> depending which paper. miss epstein, can you talk about why this refuge was preserved in the first place, what are the distinguishing factors that make
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the coastal plain different from other arctic coastal plain and why does that matter? >> one important characteristic is the coastal plain is very narrow compared to further west. that means the area where the caribou go to birth their calves is smaller. they're not alternatives. they go there because they receive insect relief and are able to avoid predators. beyond that, it is an intact ecosystem with the full range of species. a national treasures that many referred to as american serengeti. i was there just once not related to work.
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i was there recreationally and i saw in olmsted was the caribou i felt that i saw one of the world's great migrations happening. there are few special places like that in the world. it's quite beautiful. i included a personal photo my testimony. >> you're right. it is home to many unique plant and animal species, including critical habitat for the polar bear of course for the porcupine caribou it's essential as we heard from the last panel. as climate change continues to affect alaska comparable pristine areas like this area be
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wildlife and indigenous people? >> i think we heard from the other panel that climate change is real and traumatic. the further you move north and again other panelists described climate change impacts on many things. human life and wildlife. in the area described for the coastal plain of very fine it kevin area, the effects of climate change on that could be substantial. the answer, if there is one is that we don't really know. that's an issue surrounding this debate, in the absence of knowing things as science, factor what the impacts may be, that argues for cautionary
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approach. >> thank you. >> i definitely agree. if in the debate we have so far interesting. when i think of alaska i think it's great beauty. i think of john baron and his exploration of the glaciers at glacier bay that made it popular what it is today. those glaciers are receding, i don't know if anybody is willing to put up sinuses ships don't bother anymore because ships want them to come. but that's over threatening. and randy not going this wildlife refuge but a very important way of life that's larger than the wildlife refuge. those are important elements of the northwest economy.
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i guarantee you that patty and i don't get to decide what happens at mount rainier national park because it's in our state. when federal land is designated have a lot of discussions. there's been so much discussion about whether this wildlife recipe which and the purpose it was created can coexist with oil development on the refuge, can it, yes or no. >> i would answer no. when you look at the purposes and statute that established the refuge that included wildlife and references to wilderness, the executive order establishing the range, the predecessor and 60 talks about the same sources
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of values and outstanding resources. when you look at the 1987 report authorized by congress, very emphatic references to wildlife resources. those were brought out in the conservation plan that was just completed for the refuge in of o look at the new science, the management, the purpose of the refuge in the administration act. they reiterated the important resources that were exemplified
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by the refuge. that recommendation that was where the poster plane. >> a nice way to say this very selective. we sent a letter to the secretary the should be clear, we should get a yes or no answer from about the purpose. you gave me an answer today and that was snow, what i object to is that it ought to be clear, people want to open wildlife refuge just a minute you're going to destroy you. you can't sit here and try to deny by stacking hearing an activist us information that somehow that's not the case, it is.
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you can decide you don't want refuge, i disagree. i think it's one of the most unbelievable things on planet earth, that just united states, is that intact. well going to learn from it is unbelievable. people spend thousands of dollars to go to the serengeti to look at this. did anybody ever think that there will be people who want to come up and visit it? see what happens when the secretary answers her letter. you can have both. people should just choose, they want to drill or destroy, i would preserve. as i said, we're all going to be gone in the future it's gonna be whether this great pristine place continues to give the next
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generation an unbelievable look at what has existed on our planet before. that is spiritual. we should preserve it thank you manager. >> we clearly disagree this is an either/or proposition. it absolutely is not. for those of us who call alaska home, to suggest that we would to spoil our environment for short-term gain is offensive. as of alaska, i'm offended. i respect every alaskans opinion. i respect the fact that there are those that come from a different homeland that i might, being burned down in southeast. i respect the views and opinions. we recognize that we have options.
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our options at the beginning and end of the day we all want to get to the same place. that we have an economy that will allow us to stay in the most amazing place. regardless of what your home is, we want to be able to remain there. you have to have the ability to stay there. when you live in a cool place, you need to be able to have the means to keep warm. i think about matthew's family and the generations that came before him, just one generation prior it was a life and a lifestyle that was harsh and difficult. literally trying to find firewood that would come down the river to keep the family home warm.
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as i think about the choices we have as alaskans, we've always been in a place where we are resource rich, where a small population, our cost are high. but the effort to make sure that we can continue to remain in this place has to be one where we were to find a balance and we ensure we have the level of security. if you for yukon you're going to rely in the caribou with a whale. and probably will for generations to come aslan long as we care for the land in the waters. i don't think anyone of us wishes to be the one that says
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we allowed ruin on our land for short-term gain. that's not what it's about. people forget for 40 years we have been exploring, producing, giving revenue, jobs, an opportunity to alaskans in the art country. we've done so in a way that everybody still wants to come to alaska. if you have ignored temperament that is not apparent. we do require the highest standards in the country, i believe in the world. we do that for good reason. because when the exploration winter time is over we don't want to see the tracks on the tundra. if the winter true ledger place
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not productive, were making sure using our smarts, intelligence and all that we have to develop the technology that makes some of these questions hard to answer. how can you predict how many pads were gonna need 40 years ago that was pretty significant and remains today. but nobody is talking about building another pluto. because we believe that even with peter like resources our technologies will allow us to access this in a way that is more consistent with a respect for the environment. to be able to shrink the footprint, to be able to do much
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more with a smaller area and to recognize what that liver stress. were not sure how many pads or wells because technology is evolving every day. to look at the diagram and hear your testimony that you have one series of wells and production now one month ago but knowing that by 2020 that you will be able to access will be more than what you have put in place today. this is where technology is taking us. talk about the shell revolution what that has done to allow us independence. it's not because that resource materialized overnight.
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it was always there. we use our smarts and technology to access it better and more efficiently. that's what were doing improving in alaska. senator heidrick challenge us to go to google earth and take a look at. obey. it still 65-acre pad. it is. but that's technology from 40 years ago. that's like telling you to stick with the same phone we were using 40 years ago and compared to you're using today. the statement was made that nothing has changed with and want to pay. i disagree so strongly with that. the technology has changed, our
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ability to access and understand the data and research we know the effort we are making led by alaskans who care to not only protect the environment but the animals the wildlife and the waterfall, richard, your family has been on the north slope for generations and on your mother's side for hundreds of thousands of years. i bet you still feel on wonderment when you see those caribou come through, thousands at a time. it is amazing, it's magical and spiritual. our challenge is to allow that
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to continue not only for the benefit of the caribou but the people who live there. just feel like so much of the discussion has taken place in the absence of those who live there. i was going to ask more questions but i think we probably take as much time as is needed to lay the record down here today. i hope colleagues recognize this is not an effort to do some secret maneuver in a back room. if that were the case we would not have had public hearing for
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five hours, televised for the world to see. we would not have an open markup like we will. none has been scheduled yet but we will have that. we'll have an opportunity to play in the lawmakers on whether or not we should keep the commitment the governor lieutenant governor reminded us of. that when this 1002 area was specifically set aside for the opportunity exploration and development, provided that certain commission conditions were met and the congress approved gone through the battle many times. thirteen times.
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i believe we are at the place the lieutenant governor has reminded us where we had met the balance in our technology is allowing us to do things that were once unimaginable. you couldn't even imagine to drill down at the center of the capital and be able to reach an area by the national harbor. this is not drilling rhetoric as is been suggested.
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it's not theoretical. its actual application. were making it happen. think so we need to appreciate and recognize. changes happen for the better, allowing us to be more responsible as we access our resources. to do so in a way that allows for jobs and opportunities and to address the national security issues to address environmental concerns, to address her energy and security needs to do so in a manner that allows us as the united states to lead with access to a resource we want and in a way that allows for innervation, were pioneering in
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the areas recognize. i think you who have joined us. i think governor walker for remaining in the lieutenant governor making sure this conversation is heard loud and clearly and enables us as alaskans to speak with greater voice and clarity. thank you for your time. we stand adjourned. not a lot going on done on
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[inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] that on.
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[inaudible] >> on saturday, watch the wisconsin book festival starting at the racetrack. featuring doug stanton and david meredith. discussing the 1968 -- amy goldstein on the fallout from the closing of the gm plant in janesville, wisconsin. daniel goldman will discuss how national security agencies
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establish espionage rings at american university. the will look at the lives of migrant workers in the united states. watch the wisconsin book festival on saturday starting at noon eastern on book tv. >> this week on q&a, we look at the lives of eight jewish justices who served on the supreme court. our guest is david. >> one of the themes in my book is the anti-semitism. from the time of -- but there are notoriously anti-semitic. i was gonna mention the famous portrait but from his vantage point they have the audacity he wrote a letter on its own station saying how very you
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afflict the court with another hebrew. >> send a check sunday night on q&a. >> that, a discussion of the future of healthcare policy. then the importance of medicaid. after that a senate hearing on military caregivers. >> policies advisors discuss the future of healthcare policy in u.s. hosted by the california association of physician groups. this is one hour and 15 minutes. >> of money. p enjoyed the dinner last night and are ready this morning.

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